Episode 144: The Power of Listening with Christine Miles of The Listening Path

Christine Miles is an award-winning author, a keynote speaker, and the founder of the Listening Path, a pioneering company in the field of listening intelligence. At the center of her company’s success is a revolutionary system used in Fortune 100 companies and classrooms across three countries.

Christine and I share a wonderful talk about how her childhood motivated her to pursue work that helps people. She explains why she took on the mission to change how we communicate and provide the “gift of understanding.” Also, she provides insights and details on how her program works.

 
 
 
 
 

Read the transcript for this episode:

Welcome to Educator Forever, where we empower teachers to innovate education. Join us each week to hear stories of teachers expanding their impacts beyond the classroom and explore ways to reimagine teaching and learning.

Christine Miles is a global pioneer in listening intelligence, an award winning author, a keynote speaker and founder of the Listening Path, a revolutionary system transforming how the world listens and connects. Her groundbreaking work used in Fortune 100 companies and in classrooms across three countries is reshaping communication as we know it. Christine empowers leaders, educators, students and change makers to turn listening into their greatest strategic advantage, helping them shift from miscommunication to meaningful impact so they can build cultures of empathy, drive success and spark lasting change. Welcome Christine, so nice to have you here.

Christine Miles

So nice to be here. Thank you. Absolutely my pleasure.

Lily Jones

Well, I always start with a large question that you can take in whatever direction you want, but I would love for you to tell us about your professional journey.

Christine Miles  0:50  

Yeah, I appreciate that. That is a big question. I always side joke that we all have a story because we know it, because Oprah said it must be true. Yeah. So my professional journey started. I started as a home based family therapist when I was 22 years old, so knocking on people's doors and literally being expected to provide family therapy. I wasn't just visiting as a social worker, and I was very fortunate, because I was trained, and by at the time, were world renowned clinicians through the Philadelphia Child Health Center. And so I was very fortunate. I always knew I wanted to help people. I didn't want to go into sales, and that, little did I know, that's the most selling I ever Can you imagine the looks on people's faces? Yeah, and the reason, the reason I wanted to help people and why I wanted to work in psychology is goes back to my back story, which is really about my mom, primarily, who had mental illness as I was growing up and suffered from that. She had lost her mother at a very early age, almost childbirth, pretty much. And you know, that set her up for a lot of a lot of pain, and my job was really to understand that beyond my years. And it was also, you know, there was some burden in that, but there was also a pretty big gift, because I did learn how to listen in a very different way than most people. And that started to show up as early as high school, that that was almost turbo charging, pretty average abilities otherwise, including getting that very first job, which probably I got because of some of my athletic accomplishments and what I stood out, but also how I showed up and listened differently. It's part of why I was able to succeed at all in that role, because I was able to do that. So from there, you know, then my my work stem from families to organizations. Problems are the same at work and home often, and listening has always been the center of the misunderstandings and the communication problems that I've seen. And so that's been my kind of my mission to solve the communication system problem. We teach a lot about speaking and very, very little about how to listen, so we understand.


Lily Jones  3:05  

So interesting. And so thinking about your own experience, I love that you're pulling out that this was something that was a skill of yours. And did you know that, like, were you cognizant of that at a young age, or is that something that kind of came to you, that awareness later on?


Christine Miles  3:20  

I don't know that. I think I always thought I was perceptive, and I was, you know, I had this kind of more emotional intelligence in areas, but I didn't really put language around it as much until later. You know, getting more into my career, and especially as I put language around what have I done that has made me successful, and it's really how I listen, and I believe that is the heart and the foundation of emotional intelligence. When you can listen to yourself and listen to others, it changes how things are and how you show up, and what you understand and what you can learn. So but it was like on the sports field. It showed up because I couldn't. I knew I wasn't fastest or strongest, that was clear. But the way I was able to read the game and the way I was able to influence my teammates and some other circumstances, that's and how I connected with people, that's really how it started to show up and and it wasn't. And there's other struggles I had. I had academic challenges, and I managed to overachieve because of what I could use in the Listening realm to overcome and to and to overachieve. 


Lily Jones  4:27  

Yeah. And it's like a quiet, quiet strength too. And so I can imagine also, you know, sometimes, just like you said, we talk about speaking, or we talk about achievements or things like that, but talking about listening, which might kind of go under the radar, like it's almost like a secret power that some of us may or may not have.


Christine Miles  4:46  

Yeah, so it's interesting. I love the way you said that. So it is secret to the one doing it, but, but I've always felt it was very loud from this perspective, because when, when people have the experience. Of being seen and heard and understood, not just heard, but understood. That's a very loud noise to me. Yes, that's like, I know when people feel that. I mean, one time I joke my I used to play field hockey, and one of my friends was dating somebody new. This was back in my 30s, and everybody went to meet him. We were at this tournament. We met him at different times, and they said, oh, so and so, this is a little bit about him and blah, blah. I came back and I had like, 10 things to say. Though, how did you get all that in 10 minutes? That's just what I do, loud in many ways and very quiet in other ways. Yes,


Lily Jones  5:40  

yeah. So interesting. I love that. And so tell us about the Listening Path, though. Why did you create it, and how does it work?


Christine Miles  5:46  

 Yeah, so it's it really started with adults, and now has moved into from from ages three to as old as we can live. So so what I realized as I wrote my book in 2021 I had been working on how to kind of codify and systematize this very intangible, difficult skill, because and misunderstood skill, because I think what we think listening is isn't actually what I think good listening is. We've we've really morphed it down to such behavioral look at people pay attention, and even active listening, which is the gold standard was 1957 we haven't had a modern upgrade since 1957 and so when I started to codify it, I thought, I think in stories, I try to, I, you know, I like maps, but only like the Hershey Park map. I grew up in Hershey. Like, where am I? I'm here. It has to be super simple, so I codified it around a story about the Listening Path, which is the path to understanding. And the story is, you wouldn't go hiking in the woods without tools or supplies in your backpack. That would be crazy. And we go metaphorically into the conversational woods all the time, unprepared. So when I wrote my book, what is it costing you not to listen. I wanted to not only talk about the problem because you can't solve a problem you don't know you have, and I wanted to bring attention to that, but I also wanted to bring attention to there's a new and better way to solve this problem, which is, let's start thinking about behaviors, and let's start thinking about tools. What are the tools we need to navigate more effectively, and, by the way, more efficiently, because the world has changed considerably. And this idea that somebody should just talk and we should just be quiet and listen most, most senior executives tell me they don't have that kind of time. Husbands tell me, and wives tell me I don't have that kind of time. Like, how do we get there meaningfully in a faster, better way. So that's what the Listening Path is. And then what I wanted to figure out is, how do we bring this to kids at an early age, so that we're not learning this at what by the time we have so many bad habits and we're wired to not listen? Yeah. 


Lily Jones  5:46  

And I think when we think about the why, too, going back to what you said about really seeing someone, and the power of that, and the power of being seen for your full self, like nothing could be better. That's what I always say with my own kids. Like, if they have teachers who fully see them, that's the greatest gift, like so much more than academics or supporting them in other ways, like just being seen. Yeah, I think starting with that, like starting with the purpose of listening and the impact it can have is so important. 


Christine Miles  7:04  

Yeah, I call that the gift of understanding. Like when you feel understood and not agreed with, by the way, you're perfect and being seen as being seen for, you know, all the things you bring it is really a gift. It is, it is we feel it when people listen and we feel it when they don't. We don't necessarily recognize it the other way as easily, unfortunately, which is part of the big problem. But, yeah, that's nice that you say that to your kids. I mean, I think that's the human experience that, and I think that solves a lot of discord. I think it solves a lot of complex problems that's fracturing our society, and it's also why it's so imperative, especially with the rate of technology development, that we don't lose these vital human skills that were already tenuous anyway. So that's my mission, is to globalize listening education so that this is foundational for us humans, just like speaking has been since ancient Roman times that we start to flex that muscle. Yeah,


Lily Jones  9:34  

Fantastic. And so let's talk a little bit more about the challenges. So why can listening be such a challenge for parents or teachers or children? 


Christine Miles  9:34  

Yeah. Well, the first one is that I don't know many things in the world that we're just told to do and expected to know how to do it, and it's interesting. And by the way, the research shows consistently that 96% of people think they're good listeners.


Lily Jones  9:59  

Yeah. Yeah, interesting.


Christine Miles  10:02  

I love to watch people's faces, but part of it is because we don't have a standard for what is good listening. It's all in the eyes of the beholder. So if we don't really know what good looks like, how do we know if we're good or not? So we just assume we are. So that's the first problem. Is that we're told from a very young age, but we're really not taught the hell other than pay attention, listen up. You have two ears, one mouth, in proportion, all these kind of statements that really don't build the skill. Again, I go back to my athletic life, and I go, Well, nobody just expected me to play field hockey. Well, I had to be shown how to do it. So, so that's, that's one thing, the other thing, and what people think is probably the root cause, is the technology that we're distracted by these days, and that is a big problem, because it's only eroding things further. But it's actually not the root cause, in my opinion, the root causes that our brains, our subconscious brain, our emotional brain, is in charge when we're listening, just like when we're speaking, and it's irrational and it's not in control of, you know, the logic. It's all subconscious. And so we don't do it well, because we don't have things to really manage our own, thoughts, impulses, biases, feelings, all the things that are telling us to do everything but listen. So the absence of training, we're failing because our brains are saying, don't listen.


Lily Jones  11:29  

That makes sense. Yeah. And so you've covered this a bit, but I'd love to hear more from you about why listening is such an important skill, and especially an important skill that we should be teaching to kids from a young age.


Christine Miles  11:42  

Yeah, so.... well.... So the emotional intelligence aspect of this, to me, is huge and and as we get more into AI and to things that are going to take away the real brain thinking, we need to ask AI the right questions for I don't believe we're going to eliminate humans, but we do know it's getting smarter and smarter. So how, how you fit into that puzzle? Because ultimately, businesses are still made up of people, and we have to collaborate, we have to get along, we have to know how to solve problems. We need to know all those things. So that's the real differentiator for it's so foundational to the emotional quotient and to how we navigate in life, but so much of what we learn is through listening. So just to become a good learner, listening is foundational. So as much as I believe, and I have spent my career on the social, emotional aspect of life, this is just hardcore, you will be a better student if you learn how to listen, not just to pay attention to what the teacher says, but to take in information in a way that you can discern it, understand it, comprehend it, and make sense out of it. In the bigger scheme of things, yeah.


Lily Jones  12:52  

Yeah. As you talk through that, I'm curious too to see your thoughts on how listening connects to curiosity. And I think my experience with good listeners is that they're curious. They want to learn more, like there's some kind of genuine connection. It's not because I think I should listen, it's because I'm genuinely, somehow finding a part that's interesting to me.


Christine Miles  13:15  

Yeah, and I don't you think we kind of knock that out of kids pretty quickly, though, because we teach them, they have to have the right answers. And to me, and the other thing about listening, that's one of the things that's expected to be a good listener, is be curious. And I think, well, that really develops when you're a good listener, not show up and you're curious. We're all wired a little differently, and so So curiosity is is so important, but we need to, we need to teach people how to develop that aspect of things and not needing to be right. I always say curiosity, being confused, being uncertain, are very good signs in a conversation in a classroom in life, because then you're listening differently. So that being okay is a big part of what we have to teach. Is all right to be confused. It's all right to be not certain. 


Lily Jones  14:10  

Yes, yes, yes, Absolutely. I mean, it seems like there's a good amount of cultural norms too, right, but not being attached to a right answer, a right answer right away of being able to value that curiosity and not having all the answers or not even knowing the path to go down. Sometimes, I think it's in what we in the feedback we give, too.


Christine Miles  14:33  

Well, what do we expect in workplaces? Come to me with solutions, not questions, right? Give me and I get that there's a there's a message in there, but part of that message is figure it out rather and but have we taught people how to fully figure that out and test those assumptions? And that's that's part of being curious, by the way. I also think if you're too certain, you should... that's exactly when you should be curious. Yes, if you're that certain, you're probably missing something.


Lily Jones  15:01  

Absolutely, absolutely. So how about for people who might be listening and realizing, "gosh, maybe I'm not a great listener?" What Tdid...


Christine Miles  15:11  

That would absolutely.... I just want to be clear, most people aren't, and it's not their fault because we again, told, not taught. There's too many enemies. Technology is making it worse, so it's okay not to be good at this. It's just something we haven't developed. And so there's, there's lots of things that you can do. First, once you it's 50% of problem. Solution is getting to the know you have a problem and identifying it so so they can my book has the foundational tools to understanding. If you have students, we have, you know, I have a Classroom program now that makes this simple for teachers to implement and students to learn, and parents are involved in that as well. So there's lots of things out there, including other books and other ways to learn how to listen. I just, I just happen to be, I'll say, what do they call? It a humble brag that I truly believe that I've just made this so simple that it's not that it's easy, but it's simple. The hard part is practicing that you can change conversations within moments just by using the tools.


Lily Jones  16:17  

Wonderful. And so let's talk about that Classroom program a little bit, most of our audience are educators. Can you tell them a little bit about the Classroom program?


Christine Miles  16:26  

Sure, sure. Well, bless your hearts, educators, because I'm I'm an educator all my life as well, but more to adults. And one of my hardest things was, how do I scale this movement? Because if, how do you teach a world that hasn't been taught? Well, we, I knew I needed the teachers help, but we they're the they're the heroes here, but they haven't been taught either. So what our goal, and my goal has been, is to make this as simple as possible for them. So I animated myself so I could teach the core story of the path and those tools, and then the teachers use it as a language of in their classroom. So it applies to math classes as well as conversations between students about recess. So we had one teacher from one of our schools say, I just have to say, use your Listening Path tools, and they click into something different because now they have a common way of talking about it. So the lessons are 20 to 30 minutes, and the prep time for the teachers, believe it or not, is only 10 minutes per lesson the first time they teach it, no professional development is needed, and then all the resources are provided. So it's literally plug and play for them.


Lily Jones  17:31  

That sounds really, really helpful. And I appreciate that you thought about it that way too, that it's not only a book, that it's not only teaching, you know, individuals, but that is having a whole program that can start in school.


Christine Miles  17:42  

So yeah, and we've been fortunate. We launched in January. I mean, I've spent a lifetime nurturing and developing this, but from high school, we had a high school class and or part of being a school in Ireland used it, using the elementary program, because really have to teach adults, very similarly, you have to teach over this net. No, but, but how the language is so easily adopted, it's just been great. I had a fourth grader. There's two tools that I can share with your audience that we teach. And one is, is, how do you make sure you get somebody? How do you make sure you've understood? Because the goal of listening is to understand. So we teach what we call a flashlight. So when you're in the woods, it's dark and you need to shine a light on the trail. Well, when you're listening, the speakers in the dark about what you heard, so you need to shine a light on their story. So that's the first thing, you have to retell the story the speaker told you. And then we use a water filter to make sure it's it's not polluted with your own thoughts and feelings and that you're clear. So these are two tools that marry together. So imagine a fourth grade boy. He asked me, just like you did, why did you develop the program, Christine and so forth? And I told him about my mom, and, you know, her suffering and some of the things that I how I achieved. And He came back and he retold this. Fourth grader retold me my story, and said, Christine, do I get you like that's what we want in the world, right? Yes, that's what we want. We want people who are stopping to share what they see, not just what they think you know, not just what they want to talk about. It was a really beautiful moment. Yeah.


Lily Jones  19:21  

And that check is so considerate too, right? Like, did I get it right? And so I think also going back to the beauty in the imperfection, and just the reality of imperfection that we often hear things and they are through our own filters, or we're not fully present, or whatever it might be. So having that check of, like, Did I miss anything? Is this how I ...how you see it too? It's a great chance to connect. 


Christine Miles  19:44  

It's huge, and it's okay if we miss. It's that we try. This is what most people do, and it's natural. They say, I understand. That's the way they check, hey, yeah, I understand. And I always think, well, I get to judge that, not you. That only. Says, like, I'm sorry, but what are you sorry? For sure, I don't know that. And then we teach other things how to listen with your eyes and how to listen with your heart and with all aspects of yourself. But, uh, yeah, it's, it's, that's the real goal of listening. Isn't just to hear it, it's to understand it. When you hear it and understand it and you check, then people do feel seen beautiful. That's really how it works, and then you can find a deeper meaning in classroom lessons as well as conversations.


Lily Jones  20:30  

 Yeah, that's fantastic. And so I'd love to switch gears a little bit just about your own experience, kind of coming up with this framework and methodology and diving into the world of listening and starting the Listening Path. What have you learned about yourself through this process?


Christine Miles  20:48  

Yeah, oh, well, that's a long so it takes a lot to nothing, and nothing sells itself, right? That's one thing I've learned. And so this, this, I've been more clear. This is so mission driven for me that I look back to my mother's story and her suffering, and because part of what she suffered from was that people had a hard time understanding the pain that most people didn't see. Because my mother was very funny, very gregarious, very loving. And so there was a silent suffering. And I could see that people missed it when she would express her pain. Because what happens? We talk people out of things? Oh, well, you know, God only gives you what you can handle, or look what's so great in your life now. And I saw all those misses. I called it death by 1000 cuts in her experience. And I really have come to learn that, I think that, you know, the purpose of her life, my life, is really to help solve this problem, to stop that, that epidemic of misunderstanding and drought of understanding. And that's been very meaningful from that standpoint. So that's one thing, and it just takes a lot of tenacity to to really do something that's, that's most people haven't thought of, so, yeah, that's, that's, that's part of the fun, and it's also part of what, part of the struggle. But it's, but it's, but it's even embedded even deeper meaning for me. Yeah,


Lily Jones  22:16  

Yeah, I love that, and I think you kind of need that, right? Like to be able to persevere, if we have a real connection with the greater purpose of why we're doing something gives us not only greater meaning, but also strength to persevere through the ups and downs.


Christine Miles  22:34  

Yeah? And that's true, whatever you're trying to do. I think, I think I've, you know, I've had my own medical issues in my earlier in my life, I was in an accident. I changed my life, and I've been always physically to be able to persevere through some things and and so that's been a helpful, you know, foundation for me. But when you really believe in something, it does, it just becomes not a choice in many ways. So there's a lot, there's a lot to feeling like you really have that passion for what you do to make a difference. Because I think we can all make, make a difference in our own way. 


Lily Jones  23:10  

Yeah, yeah. I like this idea too, that it's not a choice. Because I think though, in some ways, like I see people stopping themselves from those things, that maybe just keep coming up for them. No, I really just want to focus on this. This is something I'm really passionate about. So I do think that, yeah, it isn't a choice. Sometimes that it keeps reappearing, being such an important theme in our life, but sometimes really going for it can be such a challenge.


Christine Miles  23:34  

And it's scary. It's scary, you know, and that doesn't mean we all need to start our own business or do something like that, but it's kind of like confusion. Sometimes that challenge means take that leap, because it's the reward is is absolutely there so and you know, it also helps to surround yourself with people who are challenging themselves in similar ways. I had a conversation earlier with a colleague who's also started a business, and she's, you look at her and you think, Oh, this is she has the world all the time. But there's always those self doubts that kind of come in, and it's important to listen and share about that I found for myself personally, just just to know that you know that it's worth it, and those moments where you have those dips, like we do in life, that to keep going, Yeah,


Lily Jones  24:19  

And normalizes the experience, 


Christine Miles  24:22  

Yeah. 


Lily Jones  24:22  

Absolutely. Well, wonderful Christine, it's been such a pleasure talking with you. Can you tell people how they connect with you? 


Christine Miles  24:29  

Yeah, sure. Please find me and us at the Listening Path.com I also do a lot of speaking. If somebody has a school or an event at Christine Miles listens they can also find me there. Wonderful.


Lily Jones  24:43  

Thank you so much. 


Christine Miles  24:44  

Thank you. I appreciate it. Lily.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai



Lily Jones