Episode 160: Cultivating Connection with Marcus Deveso of C3 Community
Dr. Marcus Deveso is the co-founder and Chief Program Officer at C3 Community. He is a lifelong educator with nearly 30 years of experience in fostering inclusive, equitable educational environments. Throughout his career, Marcus has held a variety of roles, from classroom teacher to Chief Program Officer in the nonprofit sector.
Marcus and I discuss his teacher journey, which he sees as “accidental” despite his mother and grandmother having been teachers. He dives into the C3 framework — care, capability, and connection — which he applies to education and corporate spaces. Also, we discuss the importance of inclusive, joyful learning spaces, which is such an important topic to me.
Topics Discussed:
Why he was initially reluctant to become a teacher
Being inspired by his nonprofit work to create the C3 framework
Utilizing incubators when starting a business
Resources mentioned:
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Read the transcript for this episode:
Welcome to Educator Forever, where we empower teachers to innovate education. Join us each week to hear stories of teachers expanding their impacts beyond the classroom and explore ways to reimagine teaching and learning.
Dr. Marcus Deveso is the co-founder and Chief Program Officer at C3 Community. He is a lifelong educator with nearly 30 years of experience fostering inclusive and equitable educational environments. Throughout his career, Marcus has held a variety of roles, from Classroom Teacher to Chief program officer in the nonprofit sector. He remains dedicated to ensuring that all educators and all students not only find joy in their educational journeys, but also thrive in an environment grounded in excellence. Welcome Marcus, so nice to have you here.
Marcus Deveso 0:31
Thanks. Great to be here.
Lily Jones 0:33
I'd love for you to start us off, walking us through your journey as an educator.
Marcus Deveso 0:37
Yeah. So you know, I met a lot of teachers in my life, and it's interesting. Because I've been reflecting this entire last six or eight months that this is my 30th year in education. Congratulations. And it's amazing how you know, like everything else, time flies, right? And I think back to when I originally got into education, it was honestly because, you know, I graduated with a degree and a bachelor's degree in English and Spanish, and thought I was going to get out, and people were going to shower me with jobs, and I was going to be able to go write manuals for IBM and all these things, right, as an English major, a writer. And, you know, I got out of of undergrad and exactly nobody offered me anything. And so, you know, I spent a year saying, what does one do with a degree in English and Spanish? There's not a ton of opportunities that are banging down my door. And so, you know, I thought about it and reflected and thought and reflected and thought it reflected and landed on, I think someday I want to be a teacher. And it just happened to be that the my alma mater, which is a private school in the area that didn't require any kind of certification or anything else, was looking for a Spanish teacher. And it just kind of happened. But what's kind of interesting about it is that, you know, I met hundreds of teachers over the years. I've been to seminars, I've delivered workshops, and it's a super common story that I call the accidental journey. And so many teachers that I know, matter of fact, most of the teachers that I know didn't start out like as a kid. There's very few of them that are like lifelong I want to be a teacher. My mom was a teacher, my grandma was a teacher, and so I want to be a teacher. Almost nobody is like that. Almost every teacher that I've met over the years also has a story about how they accidentally fell into it and stayed and so when I think back the past 30 years. It's, it's mind blowing to me. Number one that I did it, matter of fact, when I was a kid, I always swore I would never the one thing I would never want to be as a teacher. And so 30 years later, 30 years later, here I am.
Lily Jones 3:14
Amazing. Yeah, I find that too. Talking to many teachers at educator forever and through the podcast, many folks kind of find themselves in this role, and I didn't really ever think about being a teacher either. I was actually an English major also and a math minor, and I was like, Oh, I can combine both of these things and teach elementary school.
Marcus Deveso 3:35
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's interesting though, that that dynamic is so common.
Lily Jones 3:42
Yeah, absolutely. So tell us kind of what you're doing now, what c3 community? What does it offer?
Marcus Deveso 3:49
Yeah, so you know, I'm still an educator at heart. I stepped out of the classroom about seven, eight years ago to to run programming at a local not for profit, and so most of my days are spent researching and implementing various types of kind of being, the the the architect, sometimes the The symphony conductor of a whole lot of programs, which is great. I really enjoy that part of it. But c3 community came about because when my, my co founder and I, Patty Steven, when we we run this not for profit, together, and when we took over eight years ago, we inherited a really toxic environment, and it was difficult people on the programming side literally did not talk to people on the advancement or development side of things. It was a very fractured team. Uh and over the years, through a lot of trial and error, finding finding out a lot of things that didn't work, we were able to understand that, you know, if, if people feel cared for, capable and connected, those are our three C's, if they feel cared for, capable and connected, generally, they enjoy what they do. They enjoy each other, and honestly, the productivity is more and so you know, we kind of carry that culture, not just through our team, but also to our classrooms. And so, you know, we understood that if there's a child that's that's struggling in some way, doesn't want to be here in the program, isn't doing all that well in a class, chances are there's, there's a gap in one of those three C's, either they are not feeling cared for, they're not feeling capable, or they're not feeling connected. And so when we kind of, again, After much trial and error, stumbled upon this, this formula, if you will, this framework. We thought, you know, we hear so many people in schools, teachers, kids, administrators, as well as in the corporate world, talking about how they feel burned out, or they feel overworked, or they feel unappreciated, or whatever. And we thought, you know, it's been so impactful for our team and and by extension, our lives that we'd love to kind of share this framework with anyone who will listen to us. And so we we bring our c3 cared for, capable, connected framework into the educational spaces, but we also bring it into corporate spaces as well. So in addition to kind of running this, not for profit, and doing the programming work. C3 is, is kind of the next iteration of where I may go with my educational career.
Lily Jones 7:10
It's so interesting to hear you talk about how this framework or approach came out of a real life issue, like, hey, how do I bring these people together? And I love how developing it, you're able to bring it to these different areas now. And can you talk a little bit more about what you do when you work with an organization with the c3 framework?
Marcus Deveso 7:29
Yeah. I mean, if you really think about it, right, like, like you could say, just like any other buzzword, right, or phrase, cared for, capable, connected. But if you really lean into that, right, and you really lean into like, think about, we invite our participants a lot of times to think about a time that like, like, let's really go there, let's, let's close our eyes and think about a time when we really, truly felt like we were cared for, right, whether it be in our personal lives, in our professional lives, right? What did that feel like? What what made me feel cared for? What was the result of feeling cared for? Think about it. Then think about a time where you didn't feel that, that feeling of being cared for. And so we kind of run through the the the exercise of what it feels like to feel truly cared for, and then to feel truly capable, and then to feel truly connected. And what happens if you can bring all those three things together? So we offer, again, kind of a reflection in terms of either do your do, your places of existence, whether it be school or your job, have blind spots when it comes to cared for, capable, connected, if you're bringing us in, obviously something attracted you, right? And so let's, let's kind of go through it. And so we do a lot of things. We'll do, we'll do surveys, work with the teams to do surveys and assessments around cared for, capable and connected what people are or are not feeling. We actually do a lot about the science. And so this, this idea of being cared for, capable, connected, is really rooted in in the science of positive psychology. And so we do a lot in terms of, if, of explaining, here's, here's the science behind it, here's why it works. We do a lot in terms of suggesting, here are some things you might do as a team to make sure everybody feels cared for capable and connected and and again. Sometimes it's a one off, which is great, and sometimes it's a relationship where we're on retainer to help them form cared for capable, connected committees and and try to. Carry that work forward as much as anybody is willing to or wants to.
Lily Jones 10:06
That sounds incredibly impactful. And I think thinking about this work in terms of schools, I'm interested in how you're working with this framework with teachers, and then they also maybe are doing the same work with their students, and how do you see that play out?
Marcus Deveso 10:22
Yeah, you know, one of the things that we always say is that you can't give what you don't have. And so, you know, in education, of course, a couple years ago we had a shift here. I had a shift where I realized that, you know, I can either concentrate on taking care of the hundreds of kids that are with me and making sure every kid feels cared for capable and connected, or I could look at my team of 20 educators, and I could Make sure they feel cared for, capable and connected, right? Which, you know, honestly, obviously, education is a hard field, and there's always it's so common to have kind of this, this dissonance between administration and and teaching faculty, you know, super common experience, and I don't, you know, we always assume good intent, right? But it is a tough job for administrators. It's a tough job for teachers, and a lot of times it it consumes that feeling of being cared for, capable or connected, right? Not, by anybody's fault. And so the thought was, what if? What if we we took all this time and effort and invested it in making the teachers, the adults, feel truly cared for, truly capable and truly connected. What would the trickle down effect be in the classrooms? And so we did it. We really went all in on it. And it was unbelievable, unbelievable, how teachers who came to us at the beginning of a year feeling burned out would leave at the end of the year feeling energized, right? So instead of feeling more burned out by working this second job they had, right? They feel better about their their career, their mission. The kids did unbelievable work, the wellness, you know, I think that sometimes we get so consumed or lost in things like curriculum and pedagogy and grading papers and filling out this report and that report, whatever that we forget about that wellness piece and and if we're not well as educators, how can we possibly give that to our kids? And so it's been unbelievable to watch, first of all, as a lifelong educator who has had times of feeling discouraged and burned out and all that. First of all, to see the adults, who are these amazingly talented teachers, all of a sudden light up again. Is is amazing and gratifying and brilliant. But again, at the end of the day, it's watching them light the kids up, and seeing the kids light up because the kids feel cared for, capable and connected. So it's, you know, it's kind of, it's a really beautiful thing to see educators truly in their element with the freedom to just be who they are, and then to pass that on to the kids. And so we really believe in the pro social modeling, too. So again, we can't give what we don't have, so we try to have it at the top, you know, and give it to the teachers, and then they give it to the kids, which is amazing.
Lily Jones 13:52
I think that's such a smart approach. And I've seen this all the time where teachers are asked to teach social and emotional lessons or things like that, when they're completely burnt out, and, you know, at their wits end. And I've been there too, right? And it's really hard because you're not able to fully model this. And often the things that we teach students exactly. We need them ourselves too.
Marcus Deveso 14:15
And again, it's no, no no indictment of anybody. We assume good intentions every every administrator and teacher that I know wants to do right by kids. But it is a tough job, and it, you know, it's so common for for educators at any level to feel that fatigue and that burnout, and again, you can't, you can't give that feeling of of social, emotional well, being to a kid if you don't really have it yourself.
Lily Jones 14:51
Yeah, and talk about being cared for, right? Having educators have some time where it's really about them and how they're, you know, dealing and walking through. Their profession, I think, is really, really important. So I appreciate that. What you said about like, instead of going to the 100 plus students, you know, starting with the 20 teachers, because I think just as an organization or as a person, right, you think about the impact you're able to make, I'm sure it's much more with these 20 teachers, who then can go out and make that impact, rather than trying to check in with 100 plus kids all the time. That seems like it's a recipe for burnout, too.
Marcus Deveso 15:24
Yeah, you know, it's, it's, it's, we prioritized, you know, the at some point, you know, for these teachers who started off their career, whether it be accidental or they planned on it forever, right? At some point, there was, there was an idealism and a joy. Like we went, we're going to do this. We're going to teach kids, right? It's going to be amazing. We're going to be joyful about it. Same thing with kids. At some point, they come to school and and they're excited and they're curious and they're joyful. And then over the years, the longer that you're in education, the more the more joy, less it becomes for teachers and and kids and so again, a lot of times there's a lot of there's a lot of really great frameworks out there that really focus on, how do we bring the joy to the kids? How do we get the kids to be joyful? But I really believe that it's equally as important to allow the adults to be joyful. The more joyful The adults are, the more joy they pass on to the kids, and the more joyful their class atmosphere is, and the more well the kids feel, and the more comfortable kids feel. And so again, this whole framework was was about the kids, for sure, but it's really about allowing for that joy to be back in the in the spirit of the educators.
Lily Jones 16:49
And I appreciate how it's like a systems level perspective, right, of thinking about the teachers, the students, the organization, all together, and that something in isolation is never going to be as effective, right? As if it's whole system wide.
Marcus Deveso 17:03
Yeah and it's tangible, right? And it sounds, it sounds kind of funny, because you don't really hear about a lot, but it is a requirement for my teachers to infuse their own joy into their classes, like into the class, and I don't know what makes them joyful. Right? We're not doing it right. And so it doesn't matter what it is, right? You bring your joy to the class you are in. You know, you as an educator and and your your students, We're all entitled to choosing that joy and to bringing it into our classroom spaces. And you know, the amazing thing about it is, because if there's ever anybody that's that's kind of skeptical, it's like, it's like, that the age old. But I can't, I don't have time, right? I have to get through my curriculum. I have to get through this, what the state is asking me to do. And honestly, the coolest part about it is that there's so much research, and ultimately, I did my doctoral dissertation on the fact that when you invest in these practices, it actually allows you to get further and deeper into Your curriculum and into the learning process, because once you take down the the emotional and the mental energy it takes to be exhausted and tired and bitter and all these things we feel when we're when we're, you know, stressed to the max, the kids too, right? Once you take those filters away real deep learning and education happens and and honestly, test scores go up. Standardized test scores go up. Student Performance and learning go up. Kids report again, more more happiness. Kids report that they that they're actually more interested in the topic than they were, and so, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a feel good thing, but at the end of the day, it's also incredibly impactful on education in a really positive way. So it's kind of a win all around.
Lily Jones 19:16
It's a beautifully simple solution, you know, to prioritize joy and connection. I think it's exactly how we get all the things right. But it's so hard, it seems so easy, and it can be so hard. So I appreciate the work you're doing.
Marcus Deveso 19:30
Yeah, you know. And again, it seems counterintuitive at first, right? Like, how can I possibly take the time out of my my busy class time and in this curriculum that I barely have time to get through, you know in the first place, how can I possibly take time out to do something like build community, right? And And honestly, all the research is saying, How can you possibly not take that time sure that. Are for everybody all around including your education.
Lily Jones 20:05
I love it, so I'm curious. I always love talking to people about the organizations they've founded, and their own experience of founding the organization and seeing it grow and take a life of its own. And I'm curious what you've learned about yourself through this process.
Marcus Deveso 20:22
You know, it's interesting, because, obviously it started as as just an idea, right? Like, like everything does, and and Patty and I are both, are both kind of big idea, big picture thinkers. We dream big and and we work hard, and then we have a great team around us that that helps us with a lot of the details and things and so, you know, it just kind of started as a thought, and I learned what an LLC is -- that there's some paperwork you have to file. I learned so I learned about just the logistics of what it takes to actually found a business, especially in in New York State, which is, honestly, it's it's not as much as people think that it might be. There's actually less to it than than you would think in terms of the actual legalities of it, you know. But what I really found about myself even more is that, you know you go through your day to day and your week to week and your month to month and your year to year, and all of a sudden, you know you're where I am, 30 years into it. And you know, I really in kind of putting together this framework and and the way that that c3 is structured is that we, Patty and I both support each other. Patty's expertise is very much in like organizational leadership, where my expertise is in educational leadership. And so we support each other in it. But you know, we both kind of have our areas of expertise that we lean into. And just going through putting together the framework I realized, you know what, like, I've learned a lot about education in the last 30 years. I know so much more about education than I even knew I knew, okay and, and it's a lot of it is, you know, like, it's funny, because I give a lot of advice, I give a lot of talks, I give a lot of workshops, and people, a lot of times, are like, you know, wow, you know, you really, you know, you have a lot of wisdom about this, and, you know, and it's like, I don't, I know a million things that don't work. That's important too. That's why I know what does work, because it was some sort of intuitive thing that I just studied and did research. And no, I tried a million things that didn't work, and that led me to these things that I now know do work after three decades. So, yeah, that's one of the things that I found out about myself, is, is, and it's a source of pride. Is one who resisted the teaching profession to start to be honest. You know, my wife would tell you that every March, it was like clockwork, I'd be looking at the want ads because my go do anything, I'll do desktop publishing, whatever. And for someone who, you know didn't want to do it in the first place, and then got to those, those tired places every year, it's a sense of it's a source of pride for me to also know that boy. I really did learn some stuff along the way, and I really do know a lot about effective learning and and and teaching practices. So that was kind of a cool part of the journey for me.
Lily Jones 24:14
I love this focus on all the things that don't work, because I think that's how we learn, right? And so for me as a teacher, that was really what it was about, being like, all right? This isn't getting across to you, like, try it again, try it again the next day. Like, you mix it up and then building a business, same thing. I mean, it's all many, many mistakes or failures and some successes peppered in, right? And so I think that, you know, I work with a lot of teachers who want to build their own businesses or start their own thing, and often they feel discouraged. So, which rightfully so, right, that things aren't working out at the beginning. And so I think just normalizing that too, of like it's so that's how we learn anything, and that is important knowledge to know. Hey, this didn't work this way. Let me maybe try it this other way.
Marcus Deveso 25:00
Yeah, and, you know, again, that kind of a ironic or interesting part about being an education is that we typically are, are we spend all our days with young people, and yet we're typically a step behind all the time. We're always catching up. And if you don't continue to reinvent yourself in education, you could pass by really quickly. And so, you know, again, I was always one that was looking to reinvent I was never the teacher that would use last year's lesson plans. You know, I pick and choose, and then continue to reinvent and so again, over the course of doing that over and over again, you really learn that this works. And it's like you build your toolkit so that I know that, you know, over the years, I've had any number of of of kids that display this type of characteristic, this type of resilience, this type of, you know, spirit. I was always the teacher that loved the kids that were a challenge to many other teachers like those are, those are my kids, right? Because I knew there was a piece to the puzzle that's all I needed to do is figure out the puzzle of how to get that kid feeling cared for, capable and connected. That kid was going to shine, right? There's so much brilliance in every kid, and so that constant reinvention, and that constant willingness to take those educational chances, and to fall on my face and say, well, that lesson was terrible and and I'll never do that again, right? I learned way more from those things than for that. That first time, I lucked into that thing that was like the work right away, you know? Okay, we'll keep that, but I didn't learn a whole lot about the process. So it's those learning, those failing forwards, that really taught me a lot about, you know, what works in education?
Lily Jones 27:09
And it's like, when we can find the joy in the puzzle, in solving the puzzle, that's really where the magic kind of unlocks, right? Rather than being like, Okay, I'm gonna find my joy after the puzzle solved totally Well, I love that idea of, like, figuring it out by doing it and also finding some joy and the seeking.
Marcus Deveso 27:31
Yeah, and I would challenge, you, know, I do challenge every teacher that I run into is like, what do you believe about your every single one of your kids. Do you believe that every single one has some brilliance right in them that is waiting to be unlocked? Or do you believe that some kids are better than other kids, right? Because, if you believe that that each kid is capable, right, if there's that, there's that C, if you believe that every kid is capable and you're willing to care for that kid and connect with that kid, right? But understanding that like that means every kid, every that means those kids that are never absent, that you wish sometimes were absent, right? That that you like you are called to look inside that kid and see what that kid doesn't even know about his or herself yet. Right? It's your job to kind of see that and to unlock that, and again, to care for and connect with that kid enough so that they feel capable. Once you do that, it's, it's a, give me any kid and and you do that, and suddenly they just, they just shine.
Lily Jones 28:56
Fantastic. I love that. But So thinking about our educators out there who want to build their own thing, whether it's an organization, a business, a project, whatever it might be, but doing something of their own. Do you have any advice for them?
Marcus Deveso 29:08
You know, I would say, first of all, know your stuff, right? Like it takes a minute to know your stuff, and that's okay. And so again, in that kind of vein of you, you can't, you can't get what you don't have, allow for the time in the experience. And I mean, obviously there's no set, is it three years, five years, eight years, 10 years, I don't know, but, but lean into every experience that you have. Lean into every interaction you have with a student. Lean into the tough interactions that you have. Lean into the tough interactions you have with the parents. Honestly, they have a lot to share with us. They have a lot to teach us with your colleagues and so. Whether it be a year, two years, three years, four years, five years, 10 years, it doesn't matter. Make every interaction count. You have hundreds of them throughout the course of a day. So when I say know your stuff, that's kind of what I mean by know your stuff, like any of us can learn how to write curriculum, any of us can learn the X's and O's of certain pedagogy. There's a million different kinds, right? But it's the how to relate to everybody who comes your way in a way that that doesn't compromise anybody's integrity, that doesn't compromise anybody's wholeness, right? You see situations, not faults in people. And so it's all it's that kind of development to understanding just humanity, and to developing a kind of patience and humility and love towards just being to wanting to unlock those puzzles, rather than just getting lost in your own frustration, which, by the way, is also very real. It's okay human as well. But to to learn from all those interactions, and then I would say, you know, one foot in front of the other, like, again, it is cool to have big dreams and to kind of do this, like a project management approach, where, like, I'm going to dream of what it finally can be in the end, I'm going to look at where I am now, and then I'm going to design a series of steps to get there. Absolutely, that's all good. It's great. But also understand that that I mean your your job as an educator is is real, and you're going to have days and weeks and maybe months where you are just buried with with grading and with lesson planning, with all those things. And so give yourself some grace and space to be patient and take it one step at a time. So, so once you have that big vision, what's the first step? Get a name, you know, and when you have a chance, what's next step go? There's a lot of local, free resources legally, where you can file for your LLC, you know, they'll help you do that. You have to pay for the filing fee. But in terms of filling it all out and going through it, there's there's great spaces, there's great business incubators around. So go and get your LLC, and then, you know, start building your brand. But, but understand that it's going to be a minute you're not just going to unless you let you have the luxury of stopping your your existence, and devoting eight to 10 hours a day to this endeavor, right? It might take a couple of years to really get it off the ground, but it's so, so cool when you, when you get your first client, yes, absolutely right. And then they, and then they, they say, Wow, that was a really excellent workshop, and now you have a testimonial when you start building your brand even more and using your socials. And it's cool, but, but again, it's a it's a process. And so again, be patient. Have some grace for yourself. Take them one one bite at a time, and and pay attention to those human relationships that are the things that as an educator, that's the most important, way more important than any content we could ever teach a kid.
Lily Jones 33:31
Great advice. And I think those human relationships, that skill of building human relationships, is really important when you start a business, yeah, and teachers come in with that, right? So leaning on it, knowing that you already know that. I think that's great advice.
Marcus Deveso 33:45
Yeah, and it's funny, because, you know, again, a part of this is, is not just working with small teams, but it's with presenting, presenting the framework, presenting to, you know, we just presented the framework to a fairly large corporation last week, and there was a room full of their C suite leaders and, you know, and again, a lot of times we get the comment, wow. Like, I could never get up there and talk. I can never get up there and present whatever. And always tell them, do it six hours a day for 20 years. So don't underestimate the skills that you already have, right, the skills of actually speaking in front of people that we just take for granted as a teacher, right? That's a business owner, you know, like you already have so many skills that you don't even realize that you have because of those human relationships that you've had to form by being in an educational position for however long you've been in.
Lily Jones 34:52
It for sure. Marcus, it's been such a pleasure talking with you. Can you tell folks how they can connect with you and learn a little bit more about C3 Community
Marcus Deveso 35:00
Yeah sure. So we are on LinkedIn and again. It's just c3 the letter C, capital numeral three. Community, we also you can reach me at Marcus, at c3 community.com, always happy to connect through email. Always happy to thought partner, always happy just to again, kind of be in relationship with people.
Lily Jones 35:25
Wonderful. Thank you so much.
Marcus Deveso 35:26
Thanks, Lily.
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